[paddroo]

Has anyone gotten in trouble? If so what happened? If not what did u guys get out of it?

[Karneey]

No, 3 Xboxes, 3 Controllers, 3 Mouses.

[paddroo]

That's great. I pm'd u with a ? of how it is done.

[vwkiller1412]

ive been instructed to say to ups guy....i run a small business and this is how i keep track of orders...lol

[Brawler2009]

Originally Posted by vwkiller1412

ive been instructed to say to ups guy....i run a small business and this is how i keep track of orders...lol

LMAO thats a good reason

[Doom]

Sc4f has, Here's a pic of the incident.



-Doom

[A. Gamer]

Originally Posted by vwkiller1412

ive been instructed to say to ups guy....i run a small business and this is how i keep track of orders...lol

Course, if you are suspected of mail fraud, it won't be the UPS guy you will be talking to...

And the next thing the person will ask for is a proof of running a small business at that address... And, unless you have SOMETHING to prove you are running a small business (company checks, letter head stock, business cards, etc), you get to add "Making False Statements" to a federal officer (another federal crime) to the charges, too.

You are better of trying the "I didn't know that was mail fraud" defense. At least being ignorant is not illegal.

Just FYI, it is NOT the UPS guy that you need to worry about. He shouldn't be asking you anything. He is specifically trained NOT to ask or confront you about the issues. All he does is check off a box on his tablet when he attempts to delivery the package. Then it is out of the UPS hands. They really don't want to get involved in the first place. But they are under legal obligation to report any suspected illegal activity. Do it once or twice, and your UPS guy probably won't even notice...

Also, remember that the UPS guy does not work for the FBI, or LSC/CB. His job is to deliver packages. He is supposed to report packages that he suspects me be illegal (as in drugs, fire arms, etc), and specifically not to confront you about it (for a whole long list of safety and legal reasons). If he asks about your packages, it is most likely out of personal curiosity. Just tell him the truth. You are getting free prizes for participating in online promotions. He will probably want to know the web site so that he can get in on it himself. And, he will be much less likely to check that 'suspect package' box if he thinks it is because of a messed up address submittal form on the promotion web site...

Originally Posted by paddroo

Has anyone gotten in trouble? If so what happened? If not what did u guys get out of it?

My guess is that the DOJ firewall prevents inmates from accessing this web site, so it is highly unlikely that anyone that got caught would be able to respond...

[Malware]

People did get introuble for when microsoft had expertzone or something around the lines for retail workers. Some heavy hitters got it for fraud. Ofcoarse we do nothing wrong on this site and this site is for information only and we all just BS here.. This site is just for fun and freedom of expressions. We are all innocent ppl here who like to BS

*Malware*

[A. Gamer]

I was looking for this earlier, but didn't find it...

Your first instinct may be to feign lack of knowledge, particularly if, as is often the case, the agent's visit is unexpected. People often panic in these encounters and blurt out falsehoods to cover up past misdeeds, even very small misdeeds. Once you make that fateful choice the FBI agent and the Assistant United States Attorney ("AUSA") who he works with may have you over a barrel. If they possess enough evidence to prove that you are lying they can bring or threaten to bring charges against you under Section 1001. In fact some AUSAs specifically send agents out to conduct interviews knowing that the subject will lie and subject himself to a Section 1001 charge. In such situations, the federal agent is typically well-informed about the facts of the case, but plays dumb in order to instill a false sense of confidence in the interview subject. And, unlike you, the agent has had time to examine all relevant documents. (It also bears noting that the FBI will usually not tape record the interview and that the only official interview report will be an FBI 302, which is the agent's own dictated version of the conversation. Agents usually work in pairs as well, so in any later dispute over what was said in the interview, guess whose version is likely to prevail? Yours, or the two FBI agents who dictated the 302?) Even if the prosecutor does not really want to indict a little fish like you, by lying in the interview you may force him to do so.

So, never, ever, ever lie to the suits... They are just trying to trap you... By the time they show up, you are already screwed. And, if their case was uncertain, catching you in a lie is a slam-dunk case-closer.

You should politely decline to be interviewed by the law enforcement agent, and tell the agent that "I want to consult a lawyer first" or that "an attorney will be in touch with you." The absolutely essential thing to keep in mind is to say nothing of substance about the matter under investigation. Try to do this by politely declining to be interviewed in the absence of counsel. If the agent asks "why do you need an attorney?" or "what do you have to hide?" do not take his bait and directly respond to such questions. Do not even say that you have nothing to hide. Simply state that you will not discuss the matter at all without first consulting counsel and that counsel will be in touch with him. If the agent asks for a commitment from you to speak with him after you have consulted or retained counsel, do not oblige him. Just respond that you will consult with an attorney and that the attorney will be in touch. And by all means do not get bullied or panicked into making up a phony reason for refusing to talk. You are not obliged to explain your decision to anyone.

If you used the address trick you committed mail fraud. Period. If the suits come knocking, they have probably been building a case for a while, so don't try to get off on your own. Just get yourself a lawyer.

[petersonrn]

It is VERY unlikely that anyone will get caught unless they REALLY abuse it. Like sending dozens of packages at the same time. The delivery guy may not even notice it. They see a lot of messed up address labels to begin with. They would most likely suspect it is just a weird way the website made you enter it, or perhaps even a typo.

If you are going to be paranoid over this, then I am surprised no one is paranoid over hte felony Return Fraud being committed at Best Buy, Staples and Office Max around the country. You guys are actually giving personal information with that. While both carry a very low percentage of getting caught, it would be exponentially easier to prove malicious intent with the return fraud.

[Shadowlink]

Well I got told what the address stick is but I don't think I want to do it. I don't want to get in trouble

[whittie09]

yea I have to agree with peterson. Unless you are horribly abusing it the FBI has a lot more to worry about then some high schoolers ordering free prizes to a semi fake address. Especially as most of you are minors. While I still don't know the actual address trick as I haven't cared (and I suspect I will be need DoJ clearance sometime in the near future and rather not do anything illegal at all) but I suspect it isn't as bad as you think. The returning of items you know to have not purchased at a location I feel definitely will warrant more looking at then mailing.

Also just get to know your UPS dude. My guy knows me by name. I just moved a few blocks and he needed to second check the new address as I order so much (amazon etc). Ive even considered buying him a 6 pack just because he brings me so much junk but I am not sure if he could accept it.

[[B]]

I think we shouldnt talk about the address trick anymore.

[petersonrn]

Not to mention that with the return fraud, there is an actual money loss involved. Ordering multiple packages is against hte TOS, of course, and the method is illegal, but Microsoft isn't really losing money since they are getting the page views that they wanted.

But with return fraud, any Office or Vista they take back is an Office or Vista that they have to sell to recoup their losses. And neither of these are going to be flying off the shelves so late in their life cycle. So there is a good chance that the store you take these back to will never sell it. (By that, I mean, if they have 5 left in stock, and yours gives them 6, they may sell only 4 more before Windows 7 or Office 2010 comes out.) If that is the case, they would likely be able to return them to Microsoft for a refund. (Maybe not though.) But even if theydo, they do not pay full price, obviously, since that is how they make a profit. So that $750+ you get for and Office Ultimate will only get them back $675 or so.

Oh, and lots not even get into the fact that you are taking TAX money out of the system. Obama won't be too happy about that in this economy. You are killing universal health care by returning Office and Vista!

[A. Gamer]

Originally Posted by [b]

I think we shouldnt talk about the address trick anymore.

Why? It is publicly posted here in this forum, as well at just about every other 'cheating' site I can think of... It's not like it is a secret.

[[B]]

Originally Posted by A. Gamer

Why? It is publicly posted here in this forum, as well at just about every other 'cheating' site I can think of... It's not like it is a secret.

I never said it was a secret. People ask too many dam questions about it.

[icefisherman]

My postman spanked me. Thats about it though.

[A. Gamer]

Originally Posted by [b]

I never said it was a secret. People ask too many dam questions about it.

That is because there is so much BS posted, they are confused as to what the issues really are... Not all shop-lifters, software/audio/video pirates, drug dealers or even murderers get caught. Many crimes go unsolved all the time. Just as people get caught for any other crime, people get caught for mail fraud, too. The point is that people are wondering what happens when they get caught? It sux. They wonder how many people are getting caught? Hard to tell, since people that get caught are unlikely to be willing or able to come back here and brag about it.

As I suggested before, people should stop by their local court house and ask to see how many mail fraud cases have been tried recently. I think many would be surprised that it is a lot more common than many of the other crimes listed, especially with the large amount of online scams out there. And, keep in mind that this is just for mail fraud (i.e. messing with your address). The rest of the case (i.e. recovering funds, punitive damages, etc) are usually filed in civil court once the subject has already been found guilty of mail fraud, making it a slam-dunk win for the defrauded person.

Originally Posted by petersonrn

... but Microsoft isn't really losing money since they are getting the page views that they wanted.

I would not use that as an argument... A recent thread in this form shows how MS was willing to sue people for $750k in damages at a cost of refunding $1.5 million in revenue. The 'click fraud' perpetrated allowed MS to make $1.5 million and yet they are willing to take the hit to sue the individuals that committed the fraud.

Our clicking does not directly generate revenue, so even less incentive not to go after a couple of the main abusers. All they would loose is some clicks... Not like having to refund millions of dollars. As it is, the industry is not taking the MS search engine numbers seriously because of LSC/CB.

Making news by suing a few 'cheaters' could be perceived as a way for them to regain some legitimacy for their search engine statistics, as well as make another example that MS is really trying to stop the online 'cheaters'...

"We have decided to become more active in the commercial fraud area on the enforcement side," said Tim Cranton, associate general counsel for Microsoft. "The theory is you can change the economics around crime or fraud by making it more expensive."

Jeremy Fain, the vice president of industry services for the Interactive Advertising Bureau, a trade group, said that Microsoft's lawsuit was more than a warning shot.

"Legally, if you commit wire fraud or mail fraud, there's a lot of very stiff penalties for that, where we don't have a lot of precedents, legally, from an Internet perspective yet," he said. "It's really meant to try to create more of a legal precedent, and more of a legal library of cases to draw from in the future."

[Monkey_Do0]

Originally Posted by A. Gamer

You are better of trying the "I didn't know that was mail fraud" defense. At least being ignorant is not illegal.

Yes. This is what I decided I would do. Either that or say I made a typo, or something along those lines.

[sai234]

well naturally if you are questioned about the apartment trick by any law enforcement officers you should use your constitutional right to say absolutely nothing.

As with all things though, you should try not to be one of the top abusers. If MS decides to get all pissy about this, they'll likely go after the really bad users. Just make sure you're not one of them and you're probably good.

[petersonrn]

What Microsoft is suing for has absolutely NOTHING to do with Club Bing and absolutely no comparison can be made.

The people being sued actually defrauded Microsoft's advertising division out of real money. It is completely different from ordering prizes to the same address when you are not supposed to.

REAL click fraud has the potential to wipe out the internet. That may be a bit of an exaggeration, but not much. The internet runs on advertising. And just barely at that. Most sites that are considered hugely successful are actually big money LOSERS. Facebook, Youtube, Twitter, etc. None of them have ever made a profit and as of right now, none of them have any idea how they EVER will.

But take away the advertising revenue that those sites DO get and they would shut down tomorrow. Not in a year or a month...tomorrow.

Click fraud makes marketing companies wary of spending money in internet advertising. Certainly not nearly as much as Google, or Microsoft's advertising division wants them too. Wary marketing companies pull out and suddenly the internet becomes a subscritpion based world. No site will be free.

Makee no mistake about it. The dot com bubble burst 2.0 is coming. And when it does, it will be far worse than the one that occurred in 2000. We could see Google almost completely wiped out in a matter of a month. I am talking the loss of over a hundred billion dollars in company worth. The reason is that hte bubble has gotten much bigger than the 90s bubble due to Google's success in targeting advertising. But advertising faces a challenge in 2009 that it didn't in 1999. And that is Ad blocking browsers.

So to make a long story a little bit longer...you cannot compare what those that ae getting sued by Microsoft did with what people are doing on this site with Club Bing.

[A. Gamer]

Your rant is quite correct, except that you did not disprove my point...

I merely indicated that if MS was willing to forgo millions in revenue to pursue fraudulent clicks, losing a few 'searches' is not going to deter them from going after individuals that are defrauding them of ten, twenty or more of copies of Vista...

Basically, the whole "they won't stop us cause they get their searches" logic is total BS.

And, advertisers are already weary MSN/Live (and possibly Bing) search statistics specifically because of LSC/CB... So, making an example of a 'cheater' may be perceived as what they need to help establish their stats as legit and get more confidence from their advertisers.

And, no, they can't possibly go after everybody bot'ing... Just a few that are overly abusing the system.

[rubixcubix]

in jail right now, brb have to shovel horse shit and make license plates.

[danny539]

went to jail,got raped,then smash my computer.
no i dont use trick so i wouldnt know

[Dr. Wily]

Please be serious when posting in this thread, at least somewhat. There's way too many "yes, but not really" posts. 1 point infraction for spamming to anyone who does so after this post.